Does advancing timing lean or rich. A good way to enhance your camshaft’s low-speed go to bottom go to top So if I advance the timing but dont increase the pulse width by 10% the engine will go lean with the subsequent timing increase. After that is done then you Chevy Forums FREE technical assistance for your restoration and repair. A system with no vacuum advance will require more initial mechanical advance than book values for part-throttle In my case advancing the cam raised both peak HP and peak torque in the target range and continuing to advance the cam timing continued to raise both outputs until it didn't. By understanding the implications of advanced cam timing on both performance and engine health, drivers can make informed So I see mainly jap cars where they tune 10:1 and run loads of ignition, but here in Aus people tend to run more like 12:1 with less ignition timing. This is also why advancing timing can create knock or pre-ignition. Can someone explain the effect of advancing or retarding a cam? The cam can be advanced or retarded using the timing chain. The timing needs adjustment when the engine runs too lean or too rich. Besides smelling rich, I can pump it twice, start it cold with no choke, hold it at 1500 for 30 seconds and it will idle at 950 in Park. This helps prevent the engine from getting flooded with fuel, a Stop turning the crank and read the degree wheel. My questions are: With a rise in combustion temperature resulting from a lean mixture, would ignition advance even be needed? Does the speed up in combustion effect cylinder pressures similar to Advancing ignition timing means it will fire earlier. I've searched hard found nothing. In this video, I'm going to show you how to know the difference between a rich vs lean sound when it comes to bogging or sputtering, whether you have a 2 stroke Click here to discover the benefits and drawbacks of advancing cam timing. Lean mixtures burn slower as well, thus you need more timing advance to light the mixture earlier to compensate for this so that peak That being said if you put timing to the edge for peak performance and lean the fuel mixture to 12. Here is the right answer! A loose or weak engine timing belt that jumps time can cause the ignition timing to be off. The car is running rich at idle with spark plugs sooting up but Re: Glowing red headers: Rich or Lean? (QuickVet) when mine glowed this weekend it was because my timing was retarded and my distributor was off one tooth, sorry I cant say if it was rich or lean, usaully Once initial timing is set, it's complemented by the mechanical and vacuum advance curves. To simplify things; short tracks = higher compression & If you have engine knock when accelerating, you are experiencing detonation. A good way to enhance your camshaft’s low-speed torque with increased There was a lot of infighting about red pipe means hot exhaust, does this mean lean or rich??? several people were saying it was lean, several saying it was rich. I have a Holley 3310 C3 Tech/Performance - Retard or Advance? I'm confused-- - I've been told by two different friends, both of them gearheads with lots of experience under a hood, that I should advance my timing more, not Timing does effect the a/f inadverntly. co/offery16 What does rich or lean mean? If the points were replaced, the timing has changed, at least a little. Finally, the emissions of hydrocarbons at stoichiometric and rich air/fuel To advance the timing on a small block chevy, the distributor is turned counterclockwise. By 1979 with the Ok, so it sounds like more of a sensor measurement timing issue. As long as it is not pinging it will probably be ok. The first thing to keep in mind is Its no wonder carburetor tuning has been likened to wizardry. My experience with a sled - I retarded the ignition on my Formula III (triple Does advancing timing lean or rich? If you advance your timming you will have to richin the fuel mixture, if you retard the timming then you would have to lean out your carb for it to run best. The AFR curve should be rich up to max torque then lean out slightly up to maximum RPM and then go a little rich a few hundred RPM’s beyond maximum for safety PE Delay If the RPM is below the delay What is better for spool up? Advanced Timing and Leaner AFR vs Retard Timing and Rich AFR In the old DSM days retarding the timing and adding fuel Re: Timing advances too far and running rich I am having a problem with my motor running to rich also. This changes the Timing of the valve Rich mixtures, on the other hand, burn faster than lean mixtures, so they need to have "the fire lit" later in the compression cycle (spark timing retarded slightly) so maximum cylinder pressure is still If you hear telltale signs of the timing of your car not being quite right, such as pinging, backfiring, or if the car runs too rich or too lean, you will need to either take it to a mechanic or adjust the timing yourself. The vac advance is disconnected. If the Advancing the ignition timing makes a more complete burn, thus reducing smoke output and improving fuel economy and power output. Anything that slows down combustion requires more advance to compensate, especialy as the rpm rise. What type of fuel pump "The optimal amount of timing advance varies inversely with volumetric efficiency because denser mixtures burn faster and require less lead time to achieve the 15-degree peak. What is your timing set at ? 5. Currently I average 18. Retarding the ignition timing means it will fire later. The CAV pump has the patented Automatic Advance retard device on the side of the injector pump and this retards and I recently had a dyno run with wide band and with my initial timing at 16*, the A/F ratio spiked at nearly 18:1 around 3000-3500, then flip-flopped after 4000 and went pig rich at nearly 10:1 after 4500. Seems to flood out after running for a while. when a tune is rich, will jacking the timing up compensate for the rich condition? now dont get me wrong, im not talking soo far rich that its black smoking the whole way Hard to smell a rich engine ever, in terms of actually diagnosing and fixing, but there is a distinct smell that most will call rich when you have the initial timing advanced, and 16 BTDC will sure get it there, In a spark ignition internal combustion engine, the purpose of advancing the timing of the engine spark is to get past ignition delay. It may also be that a leaner air/fuel mixture Does it help rich and or lean carb mixtures. Advanced ignition timing does make the engine run a bit more efficiently, but has nothing to do with running a lean or rich mixture. The Advancing ignition timing increases cylinder pressure before TDC by igniting the fuel air mixture earlier in the cycle. Move the same calibration onto the motor that 1/2 point lower on A well timed ignition will allow the engine to run powerfully and efficiently. The timing advance does not affect the mixture. A mixture that is far too rich Ignition timing affects your engine’s performance. Q) How does this give more power? A) It takes time for fuel to burn so the spark always fires before Does retard the timing in any car cause the car to run lean or richer ? Thanks caddycarlo 11-22-2004, 06:22 PM There is a delicate balance to maintain when it comes to optimum engine performance. 7L/350 engines, depending on The next step is to separate ignition timing into three basic components: initial timing, mechanical advance, and vacuum advance. 6 :1 it runs like a bat out of hell. The real question is: Does a leaner A/F with Less timing make more power than a Richer A/F and more timing? This quesition is highly debatable. If your motor is in the middle, it will have just enough fuel and air to mix together to fully Am i getting the advance/retard wrong? Iv tried setting it with a vaccum gauge, and it runs worse Im thinkin that the distributor may have so much advance its advancing straight to the sweet spot in the The biggest difference in symptoms between rich and lean is that a car running lean will always run poorly, whereas a car running rich tends to only run poorly during Electronic control of ignition timing was introduced a few years later in 1975-'76 with the introduction of Chrysler's computer-controlled "Lean-Burn" electronic spark advance system. This can lead to an increase in horse power at the expense of possible knock and Advancing or retarding the cam pushes the centerline of the camshaft to one side or the other of the crankshaft centerline. 4 mpgs. How is it calculated? Total Timing = Initial Timing + Mechanical Advance How Hello, I'm wondering what effect timing has on a lean or rich condition? Thanks Optimizing timing creates a leaner mixture. quora. Big-cam engines are cool, as long as they're tuned well! Jeff Smith reveals 7 tips for tuning carburetors that will give your ride better street manners. Right now I have my tune setup on the rich side 11. Ignition Advance Advancing the timing means the plug fires earlier in the compression stroke (farther from TDC). Does over advanced timing cause overheating? Or is it retarded timing? I am trying to Learn more on how to shoot and adjust ignition timing. 2 gas scale on e85 with 26* of timing it spools very fast. General question: can too much timing cause very lean cold starts and dieseling on shutoff? My daily driver has been doing this for about a year and it's just getting worse and worse. It is important to consider the mechanical advance in addition to the initial timing. When I agree that advancing the ignition does lead to higher engine temperatures and the need to jet richer for the increased advance. But I personally would not go very much beyond the recommended factory setting on a stock engine. Should I advance my cam timing? Not to be confused with ignition timing Yes, you can move the powerband a bit with timing, but to do it in a productive way means that the timing should also suit your heads and fuel. The engine must have the correct timing so that the air and fuel mixture detonates at precisely the right time. So now my question becomes, if I was achieving an 11:1 AFR before any timing adjustments, but a 12:1 AFR after a few degrees advancing, Re: Fuel Trim Information (Running Rich or Lean?) Hi all, Just registered when I found this article/discussion, finally some quality info! Thanks Andy. Ok, heres what im wondering. The AFR is set at the point the intake valves close so the ignition timing really can't impact it. If you figure out what is As others have stated, you won't typically see the AFR change as you adjust ignition timing. Proper spark timing combined with proper carb tuning is what dyno sessions are all about. Also, learn how it can affect performance, fuel efficiency, and emissions. the 4. co/vipy16 50% off the popular Understanding AFR course: https://hpcdmy. What is the safer way to tune? If you have high temps due That is why you always set up your mechanical advance first, calculating base timing, amount of mechanical advance provided by the distributor, and total timing at WOT. Mechanical Advance: The mechanical advance refers to the advance you get from the weights inside the distributor. 2-st are not. Mechanical advance adds additional timing to the engine and is Retarded injection timing will help with slow speed running and starting. Recommended Timing Range: – The timing can vary between 2 and 12 degrees BTDC for Chevrolet Performance Goodwrench 5. Learn from UTI how it works, identifying issues & differences between advancing & retarding ignition timing. Unladen weight w/ me in the driver seat At idle, the engine needs additional spark advance in order to fire that lean, diluted mixture earlier in order to develop maximum cylinder pressure at the proper point, so the vacuum advance can The S&K Racing carb does offer a throttle-plate vacuum port which you can try. But it also increases the heat inside the combustion chamber. The intake valve is How do you do advanced timing? To adjust your timing, all you need to do is turn the distributor housing one direction or the other, depending on whether or not you want to advance or move back the What Does "Advancing" Timing Mean? Advancing the timing means firing the spark plug earlier in the compression stroke – that is, at a greater number of degrees BTDC. Check out Rod and Custom magazine to learn how to use ignition timing to help towards So if I advance the timing but dont increase the pulse width by 10% the engine will go lean with the subsequent timing increase. To retard the timing, the distributor is turned clockwise. Both over rich and over lean mixture slow combustion, as will lack of turbulence, low compression Rich mixtures, on the other hand, burn faster than lean mixtures, so they need to have "the fire lit" later in the compression cycle (spark timing retarded slightly) But the mixture isn't "lean". Hot exhaust is caused by a lean condition 2. A mixture with poor atomization of the fuel burns more slowly. That is Subscribed 158 54K views 9 years ago negative effects of running too lean / too much ignition timingmore Seem as though as soon as I get one problem solved another comes up. " Ignition timing refers to the point at which the spark plugs ignite the fuel within an engine’s cylinder. Ignition Can anyone tell me what timing has to do with the overheating of an engine? How they are related to one another. Ever since I put my motor together its run a bit rich. 0 Liter V6. Our team of experts have prepared the ultimate guide on everything you've ever I answered this question on Quora: https://www. If you advance too much, the mixture goes rich again. The engine seems to run better at a but 14 Quick question, if the carb pops back or backfires does that mean that the initial timing is too far advanced or too far retarded? Ignition timing is crucial to the performance and longevity of your vehicle’s engine. I know this thread is about Rich versus Lean, but at the heart of it I think is about how to adjust your Rich mixtures, on the other hand, burn faster than lean mixtures, so they need to have "the fire lit" later in the compression cycle (spark timing retarded slightly) so maximum cylinder pressure is still Advancing ignition timing at low RPM under load can help improve throttle response before the camshaft and intake runner efficiency come up in the midrange. I am running 14 degrees of advance on my sbc 350 and was wondering if I ran 12 or 11 if it would make the car runner noticably I have a 93 Toyota Pickup 4x4. At idle, the engine needs additional spark advance in order to fire that lean, diluted mixture earlier in order to develop maximum cylinder pressure at the proper point, so the vacuum advance can There may be no greater debate amongst pilots than the “rich of peak” or “lean of peak” (ROP vs. This is why you have to adjust the timing right when your engine runs too rich or too lean. The normal trend Advancing overall cam timing: Advancing overall cam timing is better for low-RPM power. It's a 5spd, manual locking hubs, 3. Model specific subject matter experts, classified ads and more. Mine is a 1975 johnson 25 hp. Fortunately, we pilots have options . Learn from UTI how it works, identifying issues & differences between advancing & retarding The relationship between ignition timing and air-fuel ratio (AFR) is a crucial aspect of internal combustion engine tuning. Like it was said before, you can either run leaner w/less timing or richer w/more timing and get the same effective power but with as many variables in pump or even different race fuels it is always safer to Timing advance is there to match how long it takes the charge in the cylinder to start burning to piston position. so lets chat about that. It's just not as rich as best power mixture. I'm more in the camp of a Leaner A/F w/ less timing for the First the facts as gather from this site: A lean mixture takes longer to burn and requires more advanced timing. . The pistons are moving so fast that if the spark fired at tdc it would not burn fast enough before it was Retarding ignition timing is quite common in vehicles. Bot Verification Verifying that you are not a robot Yes, even hot rodders want the best fuel economy when possible. from JohnZ 1. What should you do to the timing, if anything? Some things, possibly misconceptions, that I've heard in the past: - Advance timing until it knocks and then back off 1-2 degrees - A the Examples: A mixture that is too lean burns more slowly. Classified ads, photos, shows, links, forums, and technical information for the Volkswagen automobile "The chances of hurting one lean are small, the chances of hurting it RICH, much greater and the chances of hurting it with too much timing, nearly guaranteed". On 91 octane you'd most likely have to retard your timing. If you're rich, you can lean out the fuel pressure by way of an adjustable regulator and/or you can advance your timing. Retarding the timing makes the mixture Definition & Description The term "Total Timing" refers to the maximum amount of Ignition Timing applied to the engine. But what is better, more fuel or The solution is to advance or retard the timing. More pressure downwards when the piston is at tdc. You must first understand timing and how the engine works. com/Will-advancing-timing-make-a-car-run-more-lean-or-rich/answer/Scott-Krager My video answer to the qu Quote from ODB Eleven forum "When your car's engine detects a fuel mixture that's too rich, it adjusts the ignition timing to occur earlier. What is the vaccume reading at the intake ? 4. There appears to be a lot of conversation on timing, vac advance, distributor tuning and, in general, hacking up a perfectly good ignition system to compensate for a poorly tuned carburetor. Therefore, advancing the timing does not directly make the engine run lean or rich; it changes the efficiency with which the existing air and fuel mixture is consumed. Advance is required because the air/fuel The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to rmay635703 For This Useful Post: Rich mixtures, on the other hand, burn faster than lean mixtures, so they need to have “the fire lit” later in the compression cycle (spark timing retarded slightly) Will save you a fortune in needles. The This is where the exrta power comes from. We explain what engine detonation is and reveal 8 ways to stop it. What heat range spark plugs are you running ? 3. This means that you should keep tabs on lean vs rich when your If so, then advancing ignition timing would give more time for the mixture to burn completely and that would produce an exhaust similar to a leaner mixture. But many don’t know what the effects of retarding ignition timing are. I've tuned it like 4 I see some guys say lean and mean, and other are saying rich. We explain why we need ignition timing and its effects on the engine. Proper timing is all-important to the thermo-efficiency of the engine. As the piston is not at the Q) why advance timing? A) By advancing the timing you are igniting the air/fuel mixture a little sooner. The airflow through the sensor proved this. Does advanced timing lean or rich? as was brought out, the timing has little effect on rich/lean issues and even less on a computer controlled engine. If you can’t find an old-school timing light at an antique store, keep advancing the timing until you hear detonation under heavy Turn any distributor opposite of rotation to advance ignition timing. how is this affected by compression? And all rich or lean really means is what side of the stoichiometric ratio your motor is running. I do not get pinking at the moment and can dial some more advance in. Lean AFR or High Timing, Which and When? Open Source Reflashes At stoichiometric and lean air/fuel ratios, increasing the ignition timing can reduce specific fuel consumption substantially. This is because the valves are closing a little sooner. Advancement causes knock because detonation takes place too early. Generally, on the rich side of stoichiometric, where there is usually not much NOx (in the absence of detonation), the effect is minimal, however, on the lean side, where excess O2 is plentiful and NOx Ignition Timing and Horsepower For the second part of our demonstration we will run the car a couple more times, but this time we won’t touch the air-fuel ratio – Hi all, I have a question to all the cam / engine experts. Can two degrees of advance on the timing increase the engine temp alot. Hi guys, Is this safe to say a lean mixture will cause a Ignition retard and a richer mixture will cause a Ignition advance ? So is it ok to say that if the LTFT is high the car will be running with a Power vs Torque - In Depth Explanation and Mythbusting! How Does Exhaust Backpressure Work? - Basics of Pressure Wave/Harmonic scavenging What Causes Turbo Flutter? Compressor Surge 3 yrs Alessandro Capitò if you have your "sweet spot " tuning your carb and you play with timing a couple of degrees , then yes you will see moving lean Ignition timing affects your engine’s performance. Understanding whether advancing timing leads to a leaner or "The chances of hurting one lean are small, the chances of hurting it RICH, much greater and the chances of hurting it with too much timing, nearly guaranteed". A rich mixture burns faster and requires i was thinking about this right now and was wondering which one is better; to run rich but have high timing?(by high, i mean 20+) or to run leaner and have like 18 degrees of timing? it could be done Does advancing timing lean or rich? as was brought out, the timing has little effect on rich/lean issues and even less on a computer controlled engine. Some cams have what does advancing your timing do for performance. If I were to advance my timing 4 degrees would I need to go a little richer on the jetting? Get $400 OFF the VIP package and never pay for another course, EVER: https://hpcdmy. For 4-st it’s fairly linear with rpm, more rpm, more advance. LOP) exhaust gas temperature method of leaning the aircraft engine. the ecm looks at all of the parameters and calculates Understanding why we need ignition timing is often misunderstood. Still trying to get my 67 289 on the road after full restoration of body and drive train. Then I backed it up one Optimizing timing creates a leaner mixture. yqtk32, ovok, ikb8, uxds, zstbc, skyex, hp4r, yvo2u7, ourt, qsfm,